tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post2554347306368435745..comments2023-09-07T22:24:51.654-05:00Comments on League of Melbotis: Warner Bros. to Re-Jigger Superman Movies?The Leaguehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04836241071795980225noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-20783860548088819612008-08-25T21:39:00.000-05:002008-08-25T21:39:00.000-05:00One of the greatest challenges of the "public opin...One of the greatest challenges of the "public opinion" spin for a Superman story is that, thanks to fanboys and mainstream press calling Superman outdated for the past ten years, a lot of the audience comes in asking "why should I care about Superman? He's got it made!"<BR/><BR/>I think that drove the whole "Why the World Doesn't Need a Superman" sub-plot of Superman Returns. And I think they made a very compelling argument as to why he does what he does in a few simple lines in Superman Returns. <BR/><BR/>It's actually a fairly complex idea, and its only really applied to Superman. (I suspect people see most superheroes as "super cops", and wouldn't flinch if a cop helped them out, but see Superman as something else.) The trick is to get the storyline rolling, I think, without some goofy "framing of Superman" by Luthor, or some other plot device that you know will unravel before movie's end.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, Singer's take explaining Superman's place in the world was played too softly. And doesn't have much application to the audience once they walk out of the theater. <BR/><BR/>The storytelling team needs to find a way to make Superman seem like a person, and explain why that person would do the things that Superman does, rather than what most people do when they find themselves in possession of authority/ power.<BR/><BR/>As per Lex: The Billionaire to criminal mad-scientist arc works surprisingly well. I think it can be brought to the movies, and Lex can use that influence to spread his message. It would also be a much better example of what the person with power does that's the polar opposite of our good guy.<BR/><BR/>But getting people not to rely on Superman... that's some tricky stuff. I agree, it'd be an intriguing storyline. But it'll be tricky for people not to feel like maybe Lex has a pretty good point.The Leaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836241071795980225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-70820557152848959802008-08-25T15:41:00.000-05:002008-08-25T15:41:00.000-05:00Okay this link describes what I was talking about ...Okay this link describes what I was talking about in my last comment far better than I did.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2008/08/18/on-luthor/" REL="nofollow">On Luthor</A>Simon MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14749383583517044214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-77589529772306284342008-08-25T11:46:00.000-05:002008-08-25T11:46:00.000-05:00I think you have to look at Superman Returns as th...I think you have to look at <I>Superman Returns</I> as the finally of what Donner started in the 70's and forget all about Superman 3 & 4.<BR/><BR/>If they were going to reboot Superman I would prefer them to make mention to the 'origin' of the character but not tell and out and out 'origin' story.<BR/><BR/>My preferred storyline would be to drop us into Metropolis with an already established Superman and Lex Luthor. The movie should deal with Lex's passion to awaken the humans to the threat of Superman. That is, people should think and act for themselves instead of relying on this godlike figure to save them all the time.Simon MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14749383583517044214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-52514728392168011492008-08-24T18:11:00.000-05:002008-08-24T18:11:00.000-05:00Just for clarification:I would point out that "Sup...Just for clarification:<BR/><BR/>I would point out that "Superman Returns" doesn't contain the origin sequence of Superman, aside from the obvious Superman I references. Lois and Clark started with Kent's arrival at the Daily Planet, if memory serves.<BR/><BR/>The animated series visited the origin circa 1996, which doesn't include a whole generation of potential audience.<BR/><BR/>At this point, I would actually argue that Smallville is a pretty good reason to have at least something of an origin recap so those who know the show will know how the movie is the same or differs. (But that reveals my feelings regarding Smallville's shortcomings)<BR/><BR/>I agree that the Kryptonian origin is frequently revisited, and that a movie would do well to move on beyond Krypton for the major plot, especially in selecting an antagonist.<BR/><BR/>I just believe that if you're going to truly "reboot" the movie franchise, you have to pay service to The Man of Steel's origins, or you have an audience that doesn't understand Superman's motivations, character, etc...<BR/><BR/>If I could point to a model, perhaps the 1989 Batman model, where the origin is revealed, but it doesn't take up the first hour of the film. I think for the audience to feel the "wonder" of a character like Superman, starting him several years into the career is a mistake. You need the people in the street marveling at Superman as well as he performs his first public superheroics to set the tone for the character and his environment.<BR/><BR/>That's personal opinion. But I also know that for a mass audience, pushing the character too far into his career is going to take some of the wind out of re-introducing the franchise, and they might as well just keep on with the Singer/ Donner continuity.The Leaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836241071795980225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-58014657848946980712008-08-24T17:13:00.000-05:002008-08-24T17:13:00.000-05:00We do not need another Superman origin movie. We ...We do not need another Superman origin movie. We had the Reeve movies, the Routh movie, a number of animated series, and several television shows (including one dedicated exclusively to the origin of Superman). I think we know the origin of Supes and there is no need to revisit it (especially a few years after yet another movie reboot).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-22191184891867348152008-08-24T15:50:00.000-05:002008-08-24T15:50:00.000-05:00I think that's a legitimate argument.I don't know ...I think that's a legitimate argument.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if I entirely agree, as superheroes are so very, very wrapped up in their origins, whereas the nightmare of a villain like the Joker is that by not knowing where he comes from, the viewer and protagonist have no idea of his motivation. <BR/><BR/>I am not against a story that starts with Superman in place, but I'm also not convinced that doesn't partially explain the dissatisfaction with Superman Returns and the recent version of The Hulk.<BR/><BR/>But, I think I understand the desire to avoid "origin" fatigue in a character who most people have at least some idea of where he came from. And can they outdo Donner's version? Or should they try?<BR/><BR/>Honestly, obviously I don't care. I don't feel I need to be caught up. And Morrison managed to re-tell the origin in, I think, four panels. So you might need nothing more than a reference.<BR/><BR/>As long as the story works, the story works.The Leaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836241071795980225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-29455941724534106722008-08-24T12:42:00.000-05:002008-08-24T12:42:00.000-05:00I disagree about origins. Everytime a new superhe...I disagree about origins. Everytime a new superhero is adapted to screen, or an old one is "rebooted," they redo the origin. Uniformly, these origins distract from plot and character development, the two items more sorely needed (and most frequently absent) in superhero films. How refreshing was Ledger's joker in large part because no coherent origin was offered? <BR/><BR/>Independent of whether or not kids today know the origin of superman (and if they don't, they could find it pretty damn easily), do they really need to recall the full details of the origin in order to understand / enjoy any story whatsoever involving the character? No. Consider the number of great movies which start in medias res (do we need a Sam Spade origin to appreciate The Maltese Falcon? I think not!).horus kemwerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984916074697401382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-23000073019839569862008-08-24T11:52:00.000-05:002008-08-24T11:52:00.000-05:00Excellent Excellent Excellent comments all. I full...Excellent Excellent Excellent comments all. <BR/><BR/>I fully endorse a new origin story of Superman. I could not agree more that Superman Returns was a capstone, a ending to a story that never got its due, and actually got mud in the face with 3 and 4. <BR/><BR/>There is so much fun to be had with Superman. We all like him, we just need a fine writer, the kind of guy who can spin straw into gold, to get after the next script.Michael Corleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441107947600810769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-3674025834985728522008-08-23T23:17:00.000-05:002008-08-23T23:17:00.000-05:00Mr. Mtzlplk. GET TEH CLUE HOLLYWOOD!Mr. Mtzlplk. <BR/><BR/>GET TEH CLUE HOLLYWOOD!tachyonshuggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13733014096001153802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-75446613993300376012008-08-23T17:42:00.000-05:002008-08-23T17:42:00.000-05:00Superman is lame. What we really need is a Creepe...Superman is lame. What we really need is a Creeper movie.J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03903186469796595837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5256317.post-68459952035458785542008-08-23T13:01:00.000-05:002008-08-23T13:01:00.000-05:00Indeed, you did make the comment that TDK had effe...Indeed, you did make the comment that TDK had effectively pulled a game-changer on the industry in the same way that Miller did in the paper form lo these 20+ years ago with Dark Knight Returns.<BR/><BR/>"...which had been lent to Lauren and I remembered how interesting ( and terribly, terribly gruesome ) it is. DC really had it going on back in that era: Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Frank Miller all pushing the craft forward ( Ryan has some great thoughts on how The Dark Knight basically pulled a “Dark Knight Returns” on the superhero movie industry )."<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://stevengharms.com/the-summer-anniversaries" REL="nofollow">Source</A><BR/><BR/>But note the link back to your own observations!<BR/><BR/>You also pointed out the revolution TDK represents in <A HREF="http://www.leagueofmelbotis.com/2008/07/league-finally-saw-dark-knight.html" REL="nofollow">this post</A>.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04068217923979593122noreply@blogger.com